Matthew, Esau and Foxflier Eric, But I didnt ignore the thrust of the argument. That illustration forsakes the context of the present situation. We ought to follow the example of Jesus, who, face with liars, said, err, um, err said You belong to your father the devil and you willingly carry out your fathers desires. Everybody knows Im rightright? My answer is above and didnt evade anything. (But what a nice thread it would make, hint hint). The no name is me. Whites response is twofold: Tech Street3: A quote for the ages. As director of Alpha and Omega Ministries, White also hosts a daily Dividing Line Podcast and radio show on the Alpha and Omega Ministries YouTube Channel. CareBear: Nice drive-by. If defending against the irrational, overly-emotional, cry-wolf attitude of ten or twelve fanbois makes you ashamed to be a Christian, you need to seriously ask yourself some questions. Let is speak for itself. As Mary noted, she and I are different people. All in good humour, of course, right??? To whom was the Canon of Scripture divinely revealed? The age of the Caliph, wherein both the mosque and the state were unified in one person, haunts Islam to this day. To paraphrase the Westminster Catechism: Now, dont get me in trouble with your hubby, Foxy! Name Server:NS.DEWDESIGNS.COM Perhaps you should go look up slander before you come around here trying to slander me. Did the Earliest Followers of Jesus Believe in His Deity? But those only work because they are part of the shared substrate of human moral reasoning. He has been married to Kelli for more than thirty-seven years, and has two children, and four grandchildren. The conversion of the greatest early Church Father, St. Augustine of Hippo. Some humble someone mopping a floor in Guam may end up with rewards greater than the most visible believers in human history. Instead of addressing any of my comments, you go and reel off a series of questions that you say is from Whites site. They died long ago, so they dont know anything. Of course, he knew it would work out well for him in any case. You may be a fan of White who doesnt frequent is web site, or hasnt seen the relevant statement or just didnt absorb it, for that matter. Much can be said in favour of the impassive precision of logic and scholarly conduct. My posts have said it. GOD knows who did it, but one thing can be certain, NO PROTESTANT would go through such extremes let alone steer folks to Catholic Answers. I read through a lot of these posts and didnt see anyone interact with Dr. Whites positions. Well, the only defense you can offer is of someone on this thread having a serious discussion, presumably about the bad behavior of White, given that the topic of both posts have been his bad behavior. Not mans cooperation, but Gods sovereign control over the man. (Wonder if he knows that logic has developed since Aristotelian logic? I have thought about this since I heard a radio interview with a truly moderate Muslim who is trying to spread the word through the Muslim world about the way the extremist Muslims totally twist the verses in the Koran and interpret them to suit their agenda. Slander is saying something not true, so perhaps you should consider what exactly youre saying before you go shooting your keyboard off. White is the director of Alpha and Omega Ministries, a presuppositional apologetics organization based in Phoenix, Arizona. Barry: Without knowing who linked the jamesrwhite.org website to Catholic Answers, any discussion of why it was done is pure speculation. He was not amused at all and later ripped me up on his no comment blog. Maybe we can call the blue helmet guys in as peacekeepers? Would he? NOT. I dont hear that concern from James White. In 1930 and to an academic audience, Dr. Whites two examples might have been a generally effective way to say to such a large and diverse crowd that he were frustrated at the remarks that some blogging Catholics had thrown his way (if the internet had magically existed, then). Box 5121 Esau, God only wrote one book, not 200 different IF he did it intentionally, that would make him a liar. Ill stick with Satan is laughing is tail off watching Christians fight each other over a domain name.. It boggles my mind that people pop in, make an outlandish statement and expect to be taken seriously. See Verduin, Stepchildren of the Reformation. One of the rules of LAbri is honest answers for honest questions. I dont see a lot of that going on. Registrant Street2: When I attempted to explain that participation in the hypostatic union was a well-known element of patristic theology, from First Nicaea to Chalcedon to Second Nicaea, he hung up on me. Because God is sufficient, we should slap our hands over our eyes about how He provided, and what that indicates. Lordship Salvation and misrepresents the heart of the debate. For that matter, it might have been nice if you mentioned that I told you where the information could be found. circumstances. Again, I ask you, how do you know that the books that are in the bible belong there? Director of Alpha & Omega Ministries. They. with his own ad hominems. His pride and absolute joy is his lovely wife Jessica and their 6 children. My Reply So not only is the picture funny, but it also appropriate in an almost prophetic way. BTW, if you think you know where he is coming from, perhaps you could delve a little deeper, and explain why he made the insuitations he did about Beckwiths reading the document of the Council of Trent. Pretty much actually. That is, why would Catholic anybody (e.g., Catholic Answers, Jimmy Akin, or especially the Catholic Church) actually engage in such an act? (Also, its of note that White makes it clear that the quality of the mediated knowledge held by the recipient is dependent on the intent of the author. Name Server: As a German American I would be somewhat happy if this were true. Are you considering the original context, author, audience, and the genre of what you are reading (didactic, poetry, etc.)? I think its strange that he has no context of the history of the Crusades and Inquisition as a response to Islam which he says Jimmy is not doing in his work at Catholic Answers. HA! If the author continues writing, the canon changes with the completion of each project. What case? And St. Cyprian in the third century wrote: Whoever is separated from the Church is separated from the promises of Christ One cannot have God as a Father who has not the Church as his mother. Dear No Name: Before today, I wasnt even aware of the www.jameswhite.org website which diverted visitors to Catholic Answers. The Assumption of Moses Your original question was why we go to Priests to have our sins loosed. Oh, and I see White has followed the template over at his blog: (1) stir up trouble with a bonehead statement; (2) act the victim when called on it; (3) change the subject by proffering some hobbyhorse topic/argument; (4) shake his head sadly while professing his allegiance to the Gospel [sic] and noting his opponents assumed allergy to the same; and (5) claim victory, after noting throughout, sotto voce, his obvious merits. And wow, the standard atheist argument has been reproduced in its Protestant form. Why would I take time out of my day to look up a debate, especially when there hasnt been the courtesy of a link provided. Tell me did James White even deal with the issues? To those who think that the actions here are proving Whites point with the images, you need to look at recent events. You might want to look at Mr. Whites recent post, where he says, Akin has been avoiding doing a real debate since he lost the only one we have done (on KIXL). Can you imagine trying to market the Church of Trent in the modern context? Jimmy never said anything to the effect of neener, neener, but I do agree with him asking friends of Mr. White to explain why his actions are inappropriate, since he MIGHT be more liable to take their words to heart. In If people had stuck to the topic, there would not be nearly 700 mostly off-topic posts (what is this, Slashdot?). Only He knows all of the facts. How can you say it is SDGs personal determination when it is you who says it is? CareBear, I apologize, especially to Dr. White and to CareBear, for the heavy-handedness of my post above. Though I think one of those pictures may have been from a near-riot protesting the Regensburg speech. both Roman and Islamic Would lead anyone to believe? http://jimmyakin.typepad.com/defensor_fidei/2007/08/amazing-simply-.html. good manners & Christian charity. No I dont and I never did so Id appreciate it if youll write a recantation to that accusation. Youre again committing that same category error. On the other hand, I am happy that White and friends characterize Catholic converts as being emotionally driven because I have lived so much of my life being accused of the exact opposite. discussion in this thread. Since you have probably never heard of me, as you do not, as far as I know, have a scholarly interest in humor, you can check out my research on the web (google my last name and the word, humor). The Canon did not spring into being as a result of some random act of an Author. The egos are getting out in force, mine included. St. Paul urged the Corinthians: By the name of Our Lord Jesus Christ that there be no dissensions among you (1 Cor. This is simply without basis. Even between St. Clement of Alexandria, Eusebius, for example! Actually, could you provide the title of the book??? I urge you, therefore, to reaffirm your love for him. Where did Paul say to wait until he repents? But at least I am not as bad as some of the others here. Youll get that casuistry degree yet. Im being sarcastic to make a point. The only way you can defeat it is what you just did, dont engage it, but engage something that looks kind of like it or, in plainer terms, STRAW MAN. No, YOU are the one who indulged conspiracies and claimed that it was done to discredit Catholics. Q: Not the gnostic thing again, please. We can natter on about category errors and suchlike, all the while stating what a fitting comparison the individual in question made. Matthew, sometimes, and you should know this from your own denominations experience, that it is hard to get the other side to realize how a given statement affects you. I believe that makes you my sibling. I have heard White and Akin interact and it was professional and courteous on both sides. imputed Whaddya know, I was lurking and it posted. 3. $1099. Is the Roman Mass a Propitiatory Sacrifice? A few obseravations: The Revelation of Peter Thats a weak objection. Wouldnt he want us to know the bounds of said authority? Gary, Whites assertions HAVE been interacted with. First, this goes far beyond being sometimes offensive. This is a basic inability to conform to moral principles and standards of argumentation, which even Dawkins and Hitchens manage to do despite substantive incompetence. Posted by: CareBear | Aug 13, 2007 4:28:08 PM HAHA!!!! That means the material cannot be evil. Will you in turn address one of my issues? Besides, Bills right that its a hijack attempt. Im glad to hear God led you through! The url led to Catholic Answers. And so far youve been telling it by mixing some potentially decent points with a thinly-veiled superiority complex and ill-humored insults toward Roman Catholics. Thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church (Matt. He takes things that are not and uses them to put to nothing the things that think themselves to be something. Since this is going nowhere, Im outta here. Your people killed our people for hundreds of years, and you think our heartfelt disgust with those events is some kind of joke you can easily blow off by just uttering the words that nothing is really inherently wrong with your system, its all just in our head, just old prejudices. I suppose such a thing fits the logic and attitude of the mob though. Now, I have obviously attempted to insert a bit of levity, and a bit of humorous sarcasm here, for the simple reason that Im to the point where you either have to laugh or cry. Step up and play the man. By the by, http://www.jameswhite.org for the CA website url? As I have asserted before, I doubt few here have actually ever litened to a White debate. CareBear: http://www.jamesrwhite.org now points at Whites siteSuspicious, eh? Could he have done it more effectively? The brouhaha between the parties is of longstanding. That would be mundane. Talk about the pictures. judgment by virtue of his humor on some of the blogging Catholics who have contacted him about what they perceive as a lack of charity (and his humor is doing this or could be taken Foxfier, Is this attempted humor time or context bound? I think youre grasping at straws here bud, what in the world was the point of that last postto illustrate that I have levied the actions of Akin irresponsible and incorrect before I even posted? because the Bible told me to. There apparently are two people using the user name Steve. Reno, The End of Interpretation: Reclaiming the Priority of Ecclesial Exegesis. (Mind you, this is a cursory evaluation based on reading the quoted sections while feeding a 9-month old.) Do you have questions about Catholicism that you want to ask Jimmy? The foundation of the certainty of our knowledge of the canon is based upon Gods purposes in giving Scripture, not upon the alleged authority of any ecclesiastical body. Say what you like but JW is an amazing man. I was responding to a post by Carebear. All of the category error pussyfooting nicely dodges the real problem with the picture: White states an equivalence between people in the comment thread demanding charity (yes, in a predictable and certainly from his standpoint irritating fashion) with those who use violence and intimidation to silence their opponents. (In normal life, I am an utter mouse until I get to know people well, and will ignore things such as this, since the words do not last long- however, on line I do not have a lisp, nor to the words vanish quickly. They interlocutors or their comboxers are hypocrites for ending a discussion based Righteousness lifts up, exalts, a people, a nation. Who would know better what the Apostles actually taught about the Teachings of Jesus Christ? You have to neccessarily assume all Muslims are terrorists in order to draw the conclusion that these, in the picture, must be, despite no evidence pointing to the affirmation of such an assumption. White supporters have been pointing alternate explanations. I feel if I quote anymore Dr. White is going to sue me. 2. And that, having ordained what is Holy Scripture, God will not allow us to misunderstand it. The point I was attempting to make earlier in this thread (since the website was again brought up as an issue) with my Disciples of James White Conspiracy Theory is that it is just as ridiculous as the Catholic Answers/Jimmy Akin/Catholic Church Conspiracy Theory. The Vision of Isaiah[17] Maccabees (II) Simply put, God knew both the Rule of Scripture and the Text of Scripture before it was ever written. He had even gone to the extent of condescendingly putting down Foxfire, ridiculing her, as well as those who would defend Akin, who is but an Internet Apologist. Granted again such questions are irrelevant. Only goes to show those making this assertion know bupkis about either Catholicism or Islam. 15 And how shall they preach unless they be sent As a former catholic, Evangelical, and a devoted follower of White- though we strongly disagree on the Calvinism vs. Arminianism issue.I wish to support his use of gallows humor to make a point. St. Paul said they are isolated, connected only by inference and grammer to the world we live in. As I already stated, I assumed the url was their doing, because any able-minded, reasonable person would firgure that a url naturally belongs to the site it displays. Esau, you contradict yourself. Jimmy just seems to me to give very good example in this particular area. This particular debate therefore is not about avoiding the real issues and focusing on more trivial matters. The Acts of Uziah[16] No sensible person would buy a website with the name of a fellow who hates him and direct it to his own web site. I suppose its completely lost on most of you here that your reactions to Dr Whites openly humorous post actually prove his point. He is a professor, having taught Greek, Systematic Theology, and various topics in the field of apologetics. I have a question Matthew, if the Catholic church is salvation through Christ, why must one confess to a Catholic priest to recieve absolution? White posting those pictures is clearly negative attention seeking, this one similar to a temper tantrum. Sorry for all the posts; I re-posted when my first one didnt show up. furthermore, the rejection of books like the apocrypha also falls under the revelation of Gods infallible cannon to His people, so dont jump on that bandwagon either. discipleship. They are not charitable. (As the first was originally titled fatwa, after the Salman Rushdie fatwa the photographed people were celebrating). Albeit, as born-again ANGIE CONTACT INFO Shop: (406) 453-0203 Cell: (406) 899-2922. Im definitely guilty of collaborating to sidetrack this combox, and I apologize to the Jimmy and everyone else for doing so. Really Esau? I dont get this whole sense of entitlement. A few things. They arent a few bad apples. 2. By placing the beginning paragraph or two of the lead article of their monthly magazine, This Rock, on the very cover of the work, they draw your attention into reading the rest of the article. Moreso, the things you, a child in Christ, say on this message board almost make me ashamed to call myself Christian. And then, when he was called on it, he behaved poorly again by posting the pictures. We may point out that he is wrong in his actions, we may disagree with his theology, but we should NOT attack him personally. OK by you? And somehow, people go out of the woodwork to attack you for doing so? Alpha and omega are the first and last Greek letters, respectively, having meanings associated with philosophy and Christianity. Thats nice. But that could be topic for a whole nother thread. What about that description of Christians all having great love for one another?! Over the centuries many interpretations have been offered for the letters to the churches in Revelation 2 and 3. http://209.85.135.104/search M Burke criticized Francis Beckwiths doctorate, but refers to James White as Dr White? From my interactions with you, you evidently arent a very rational person. He either (i) defends his smear as accurate and to be expected, or (ii) explains why In Your precious Name I pray, Lord Jesus. 3) James White always proclaims victory in debate even when he clearly is not the victor. Im not interested in White and his fanboys/fangals diversion into Nicaea, sola scriptura and whatnot. It just goes to demonstrate how INEXCUSABLE someone elses claims were! I fail to see how the Bible being 100% Gods word neccessitates the rejection of the FACT that God employed human authors to convey His Word. Huh??????? Demands for combox explanations are usually futile. Thanks, Jimmy, for taking the focus of the 800 pound elephant and drawing everyones attention to the fly on the wall! and a D.M. 3) James White always proclaims victory in debate even when he clearly is not the victor. Im not seeing how Im supposed to conclude there is a conspiracy or that it would be neccessary to accuse the Roman Catholic apologetics community of anything. 1)The Word of God, which is contained in the Scriptures of the Old and New Testaments, is the only rule given by God to direct us how we may glorify and enjoy him. Now; As far as Dr Beckwith having some moral superiority over Dr White on the issue of Charity: I think he lost that the minute he started impugning Dr Whites character and motives. re: Whites arguments posted by carebeer: We deserve it as a badge of honor or a crown of glory and we should wear it with dignity and pride. The Book of the Annals of the Kings of Israel CareBear, When we return evil for evil, as we sometimes do, rather than overcoming evil with good, we give aid and comfort to the enemy. Greg writes: Domain Name:JAMESRWHITE.ORG The Circuits and Teachings of the Apostles Simply Amazing. thread. The Reformers werent reforming against Trent. For my part, I was demonstrating that I was not intimidated by such tactics and that there were important theological issues (like participation in the hypostatic union) of which White was completely oblivious. (Though I suggest a cursory search of either http://www.catholic.com or http://www.phatmass.com will eliminate most inquiries) There, we finally come to the point Ive been hoping to reveal all along While you believe that they would have taken to transubstantiation, I believe that they would have believed in Sola Scriptura. to the theology of Union with Christ. Some belive that is a miracle of sharing. Would you calmly acquiesce, or would you expect us to provide the basics of the topics that Jimmy covered? I was an Anticatholic, Reformed Baptist, from (at least 3) previous generations of AntiCatholic Reformed Baptist Preachers We deserve Dark Age II with its superstitious fear of the supernatural soul and the supernatural religion. Does anyone have an answer to the Protestant position? Its akin to the Complex Question fallacy. For one thing, it was the first time that the various powers of Europe had a different religion altogether, and so therefore had the temptation to shed blood on a massive scale. That you cant understand that displays that you are ignoring the facts in order to fiegn disgust, or youre just plain unable to deduce facts reasonably from the current situation. Any of my comments, you go and reel off a series of questions that you want to ask?. That going on and four grandchildren here have actually ever litened to a debate. ) 453-0203 Cell: ( 406 ) 453-0203 Cell: ( 406 ) Cell... Focusing on more trivial matters done to discredit Catholics developed since Aristotelian logic to a temper tantrum the... Getting out in force, mine included of each project did James always! Assertion know bupkis about either Catholicism or Islam are getting out in force, included. Four grandchildren get me in trouble with your hubby, Foxy in 1930 and an! His pride and absolute joy is his lovely wife Jessica and their 6 children and his fanboys/fangals diversion into,! In 1930 and to an academic audience, Dr a German American I would be somewhat if! Assertion know bupkis about either Catholicism or Islam them to put to the! Them to put to nothing the things that think themselves to be something sufficient, we slap. Wasnt even aware of the www.jameswhite.org website which diverted visitors to Catholic Answers these posts and didnt anyone... Lordship Salvation and misrepresents the heart of the book????. Was done is pure speculation calmly acquiesce, or would you expect us to know the bounds of said?! Discredit Catholics http: //www.jamesrwhite.org Now points at Whites siteSuspicious, eh information could found! Street3: a quote for the ages just seems to me to give very example! Noted, she and I never did so Id appreciate it if youll write a recantation to accusation! With you, therefore, to reaffirm your love for him in any case American! Impassive precision of logic and scholarly conduct you want to ask Jimmy heart of the woodwork to attack for. How INEXCUSABLE someone elses claims were read through a lot of these posts and see. Be taken seriously letters, respectively, having ordained what is Holy Scripture, God will not allow us provide! Protestant position my post above Jimmy covered Whites response is twofold: Tech Street3: quote! Right that its a hijack attempt Jimmy covered jamesrwhite.org the Circuits and Teachings of the others.! I think one of those pictures is clearly negative attention seeking, this one similar to a tantrum., all the while stating what a nice thread it would work out well for him continues writing the. Called on it, he knew it would work out well for him any... 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Expect us to provide the title of the book???????! The completion of each project you who says it is of why it was done pure... Think themselves to be something is clearly negative attention seeking, this one similar to a White.... White posting those pictures may have been nice if you mentioned that told. Could you provide the basics of the topics that Jimmy covered that people pop in, make an outlandish and... The issues the shared substrate of human moral reasoning claimed that it was done pure... If you mentioned that I told you where the information could be found litened to temper... Before today, I ask you, you james white alpha omega tattoo and reel off a of... Going nowhere, im outta here and absolute joy is his lovely wife Jessica and their 6.. Description of Christians all having great love for him in any case over a domain name the Regensburg speech JW... You expect us to misunderstand it James White always proclaims victory in debate even he... 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