A bike that weighs almost half as much as the rider. Unfortunately frenchies and Germans are not masters of marketing. One owner reports a driveside failure on a Commencal Meta Power, the other on an Orbea Rise on the non-driveside. As it stands, you have to use the small button at the base of the display to manually scroll through additional pages just to see your cadence, estimated range and the time. It isnt a huge difference, but sometimes its just enough for your rear wheel to make it up and over a stubborn tree root or rock ledge. Shimano Consolidates Entry- to Mid-Level Groupsets With New CUES Drivetrains, Video: Tom Pidcock Going Warp Speed on a Road Bike, Porsche Takes Complete Ownership of Greyp, First Look: Reeb's New Steel Enduro Racer is Partly 3D-Printed, www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/wanneroo/bicycle-parts-and-accessories/men-s-petrol-bike-mountain-bike-/1259285475, www.cyclevolta.com/story/ebike-components/hold-up-shimanos-new-emtb-motor, www.avdweb.nl/solar-bike/solarbike/maxun-solar-bike. From what I get from the article, what would actually bother me more is how it kicks in from a standstill or trackstand. This also allows brands to more neatly integrate the motor into their frame designs, Canyon having done a particularly swell job with the Spectral:ON. I mean, one of the most beautiful things about the bicycle is how efficient and capable it is of traveling long distances under our own power. While the increased power certainly grabs most of the headlines, we reckon its the compact form of the Shimano EP8 drive unit that offers the greatest advantage over its competitors. As soon as we got the first failures we [started to] spec Shimano [cranks] again but lead time[s] to get the first crank arms [was] quite long so we had some inertia in production. Here youll find three sliding scales for each of the three assist modes (thats Eco, Trail and Boost). Wait, 23-27kms? There's 21-percent more torque (85 N/m total) in Trail and Boost modes. And you can take the motor together with a battery out in matter of seconds. - Available on a wide-range of different e-MTBs, - Clacking noise can be annoying That would be awesome to do laps on. We recommend only Shimano cranks for usage with our drive units. Overall its a vastly neater execution compared to the likes of Bosch and Yamaha with their Kinder Surprise-style switch units. In comparison, Shimano motors can be paired with third party batteries, and that opens up greater flexibility for bike designers (see the Orbea Rise and Pivot Shuttle for example). Shimano has put its long-running Steps E8000 format to pastor and heralds in its EP8 motor unit for 2021. 20ft into my ride and the motor cut out. This will be a far more accurate method for determining your estimated range. Display integration is still the best on the market, even if it only shows five bars of battery level and could easily integrate some more user-friendly features. If you are disabled and need a motor on your bike in order to ride, I understand. I have to admit some of the comments make me laugh out loud while others score some points for being helpful and based on fact, not hearsay fiction. Click on a component to learn more. We will have them soon available in all our subsidiaries (Canada, USA, Chile, Australia, NZ and Reunion Island) to reach all our customers worldwide.. You can't call an e-bike rider lazy when they try to overtake you making this sound. This, of course, is good news for Commencal customers with EP8 drive units and e*thirteen cranks, and were hopeful other brands will follow suit. Power less, battery smaller, it lighter is.. Would "every time you push the on switch" have been more understandable? This BT-8036 battery only needs a 4mm hex key to be released from the frame for charging separately, which is unlike Bosch that requires a special key (potentially something else to lose/forget). And with brands such as Merida and Canyon making use of internal wiring through the handlebars, the whole arrangement is quite tidy. Hes one of BikeRadars lead testers and knows how to push bikes and products to the limit, searching out the equipment that represents the best value for money. Others will tell us the EP8 is a weaker motor. This speed may be enough, but some people may find it very frustrating because from 25 km/h they have to make a gigantic effort to follow their teammates since the assistance is cut off or simply because they want to go faster. 2023 Thok TK01 R Review | A surprising package from an Italian e-MTB specialist, 2022 Canyon Spectral:ON Review | A better e-MTB in almost every way, 2023 Trek Fuel EXe Review | This brand new lightweight e-MTB is the stealthiest weve ever tested, Rocky Mountain Altitude Powerplay Review | Power is nothing without control, This website requires Javascript for optimum viewing purposes. If you woild like to commute a long distance to work instead of driving and would like to do so using an e hybrid or similar, I understand. Yeah, that's pretty poor! However, we couldnt get the display to pair with our Wahoo ELMNT Roam head unit. Any rider who owns an ebike with an EP8 motor fitted with e*thirteen cranks currently has two options. I don't know anyone that likes a bike that rattles in any way or form. Over the past six months of riding, the Shimano EP8 motor has really impressed us with just how much punch it delivers from such a lightweight and compact package. Furthermore, the range estimation is more accurate in our experience too. The three EP8 bikes weve tested all have sub-440mm rear centre lengths, which is quite a bit shorter than the 471.5mm rear centre on the Giant Trance X E+ with its much bulkier Yamaha motor, for example. I wish real bike reviews were this detailed. The new EP8 drive unit provides incredibly quiet assistance under pedal load. They deemed it a warranty and the motor has failed. With 21% greater torque than E8000, the EP8 motor delivers substantially more punch on the trail, and it feels more usable too. According to e*thirteen, the safety inspection is relevant to all EP8 owners, regardless of what cranks are fitted. The most prominent reports of EP8 axle failure exist on two EMTB forum threads. Just imagine if i had bought a Shitmano Ebike. Please, It appears you're using an old version of Internet Explorer which is, the 471.5mm rear centre on the Giant Trance X E+, that achieves the most discreet integration, the MasterMind TCU display on the new Specialized Levo. When new the last bar of charge corresponds to roughly 15-20% charge, but over time this becomes 5-10%. Also heard of this happening to another EP8 up in park city, 5 miles on the motor, and did the same thing mine did. Dank leichter Magnesium-Komponenten konnte Shimano ganze 200 g Gewicht einsparen, was ihn zu einem der leichtesten E-Bike-Motoren auf dem Markt macht. 681 72K views 5 years ago If your E Bike is running a Shimano Steps pedal assist motor, there are a few maintenance points that you should know! They must be under pressure to deliver units as this is at best rushed. Well, maybe, but he also chucked 20kg dead weight in his bag to try to make things right for you. I chose this bike because it has the EP8 and from research, seems to be the most reliable platform out there, assuming it's as reliable as the E8000. Can't see the equivalent of a ribbed chainstay protector happening. For riders scoping out bigger rides than that, youll want to consider dialling down the Assistance Character to improve efficiency. An E-bike with 200 watt power assist, 350 WH battery, and total weight of bike under 34 lbs. Power delivery is immediately intuitive thanks to the new MasterMind firmware that Specialized developed specifically for the 2.2 motor, which reduces power spikes from rapid changes in crank speed and pedal pressure. It's a similar level of feeling to Gen. To rectify the issue, TSB 156 recommends owners apply the correct threadlock to the preload bolt, increase bolt torque for both the preload and pinch bolts, and remove the cranks inner seal to increase the crank and spindle spline interface and reduce the chances of false torque readings for the preload cap. @tomdesoals: Yeah, I get that now that bikes have become more silent anything new that makes noise can become annoying. Certainly of all the full-power motors weve tested, Shimano EP8 affords the most seamless feel as the power fades in and out around the assistance cutoff. Just remember to manually unpair your phone from the bike before you start riding again, as the motor wont engage while the system is paired to the app. No, not at all. In fact, we found ourselves tuning it out completely a couple of rides later. However, where the Bosch Gen 4 feels like a diesel engine at low RPMs, the sporty EP8 drive unit still prefers spinning at a higher cadence. The brand was made aware of failures occurring when the EP8 motor is used with pedal cranks made by brands other than Shimano, including e*thirteens e*spec ebike-specific cranks. The brand told us it was aware of the spindle issue and has been in contact with both Shimano and e*thirteen about it. Since working for MBUK, Alexs focus has moved to bike tech. Once again still want to know; is the BB replaceable on these units yet, or are they still landfill waiting to happen? A forum community dedicated to Mountain Bike owners and enthusiasts. It is a feature bro, the sound of pure class. According to Shimano, design differences between Shimano and non-Shimano cranks cause the axle to crack and eventually fail. @tomdesoals: That excuse that Shimano put out by their customer service dept . It doesn't feel good. The only Shimano-approved pedal cranks listed on Shimanos website are the FC-EM600, FC-M8150 and FC-EM900, all of which are available to buy aftermarket from various retailers. I had this happen on my Orbea Rise but with different circumstances. With the Spectral:ON for example, which has very short chainstays and a relatively slack seat tube angle that puts your weight further over the rear axle on steep climbs, it helped to dial down the Assistance Character (to 6/10), the Maximum Torque (to 78Nm) and the Assistance Start (to 4/5) to soften the bikes power and acceleration. That is not the case, but all cranks should be checked for proper tightness before riding, and initial installations procedures should be updated, reads TSB 156. Approved crank arms are listed at si.shimano.com and are communicated towards bicycle manufacturers. I think the only way it can get even close (And still doesn't) to that statement, is riding 25km on an analogue, or 50km on an ebike. Take note of how much elevation you achieve during those rides (elevation is more important than distance when determining range), and keep that number in mind when youre planning future all-day epics. "Unquestionably, Shimano has the cleanest and sleekest display integration on the market". Then we'll fix that for you. It's like a dirt bike with a 15 mile range. If you discover damage on your EP8 spindle, you should stop riding the bike immediately. What ever happened to grit?!?! While there were limited options to tweak the levels of the old E8000 and E7000 motors, EP8 takes it to the next level, allowing riders to alter the motors torque, acceleration and general on-trail character, resulting in a more personalised experience for dialling your e-MTB in for your riding style and terrain. IMO Shimano bikes are good,but they are 2 steps down compared to Specialized and Bosch. Mkay? No mention on the worldwide recall of the motor due to issues? 2c - If preload cap has no threadlock patch pre applied: Animals and Pets Anime Art Cars and Motor Vehicles Crafts and DIY Culture, Race, and Ethnicity Ethics and Philosophy Fashion Food and Drink History Hobbies Law Learning and Education Military Movies Music Place Podcasts and Streamers Politics Programming Reading, Writing, and Literature Religion and Spirituality Science Tabletop Games . In the lower settings, youll have to pedal really hard to get maximum support the motor. You miss that obscure offering from Specialized? A little more overrun from the EP8 motor, and even the option to tune that attribute via the E-Tube app, would be stupendous! The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly: The Real Bike Weights from PB Editors. However, when coasting on rough terrain the unloaded system can exhibit a normal clicking sound that may be detectable to the rider. The cause is due to the difference in design from Shimanos crank, which causes increased stress around the spindle hole.. One of the more intriguing aspects of EP8 is the ability to fine-tune the motors performance via Shimanos E-Tube Project app. Step 2 - Identify if preload caps have a pre-applied threadlocker patch and apply if necessary. What would happen if a consumer noticed their axle was cracked in the way described on e*thirteens TSB? On the trail the tone of the clack is a little deeper than the EP8 drive unit, but the cause is the same. e*thirteen claims this issue has been misinterpreted by some to mean there is a failure of one or more system components. Anyone knows what's are those white (ish) shoes the reviewer is using on some of the pics? The low profile EM800 display takes up minimal space next to the stem, featuring a crystal-clear screen with colour-coded graphics to easily identify which assist setting youre in. For those playing at home, that works out as a 21% increase over the existing E8000 motor (70 Nm) and a 42% increase over the E7000 motor (60 Nm). Both bikes were fitted with e*thirteen cranks. The svelte motor casing provides more clearance for the rear wheel and suspension components, allowing brands to build their bikes with shorter chainstays. Wait until you see how much work it takes to replace rear derailleur housing! You can hear the motor spinning and attempting to assist, but no power is delivered. Wowzers! Its easy to modulate via how much pressure youre putting through the cranks and the power delivery is progressive, giving it a very natural feel as a result. These findings are the result of an independently commissioned investigation by e*thirteen, after the brand became aware of reports that EP8 spindles were failing on bikes fitted with its ebike cranks. And compared to E8000, the new EP8 motor is considerably more powerful on the trail, whilst retaining the smooth and intuitive delivery that weve always dug about Shimanos drive units. Shimanos answers to our questions are published below verbatim. What is rattling? Another bike that features Shimano EP8 is the new Orbea Rise. It's really, really quite quiet. I rode the engine too, the thing is the engine is super quiet once you charge on the pedals, and you've got that annoying rattling noise as soon as you are on the freewheel and cruising down the trail Shim is working on it from what they said. SHIMANO STEPS EP8 Left Switch Unit for Assist VIEW PRODUCT Cycle Computer SC-EM800 EP8 Cycle Computer VIEW PRODUCT SC-E5003 SHIMANO STEPS Cycle Computer with Assist Switch (SD300 port) VIEW PRODUCT Speed Sensor EW-SS302 Disc Brake Speed Sensor (SD300 type) VIEW PRODUCT EW-SS301 SHIMANO STEPS Disc Brake Speed Sensor for EW-SD300 VIEW PRODUCT I've already posted this on the Commencal Meta SX Power thread, but wondered if other bikes with the Shimano EP8 motor and battery have seen a similar problem. It appears users on the forum correlated the crank preload issue with EP8 spindle failure, which e*thirteen went on to refute in TSB 157. Its clear why this motor is becoming popular with so many bike brands, given the flexibility it offers frame designers, particularly with the variety of battery options on offer. Also heard of this happening to another EP8 up in park city, 5 miles on the motor, and did the same thing mine did. LEARN MORE Latest stories View all stories I run the previous version steps e8000 and I think it's brilliant. If the magnet and steel nipple aren't aligned perfectly, a variety of problems may ensure. In summary, Shimano is aware of EP8 motor spindle failure, and is correlating the issue directly with the installation and use of third-party cranks. Once paired, find the Customise menu and select Assist. I have to admit some of the comments make me laugh out loud while others score some points for being helpful and based on fact, not hearsay fiction. VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. In addition to those weve tested, youll be able to find Shimano EP8 on the Santa Cruz Bullit & Heckler, Marin Alpine Trail E2, the Commencal Meta Power, YT Decoy,Pivot Shuttle and Mondraker Dusk. - Low-drag performance I'd do way more on a big day. @tomdesoals: I don't quite get it though. I think we lost grit when we all got smart phones. JavaScript is disabled. However, you do pay for all that refinement and integration. We have shared the results with Shimano and select OEM customers. But it is not anywhere near the same engine in everything else. dont think people would fancy riding a fixie down a trail. e*thirteen is at the table with bike brands to find a mutually acceptable solution that first takes care of keeping people on their bikes. The EP8 RS engine is physically the same as the . What makes me sad is seeing young people hop on the e bike train so that they can go on a longer ride or so that someone who is new to cycling can keep up with their friends who have been riding for years, all to perpetuate needless consumerism and a gross waste of resources. this dude knows how to write a review, well done. This data covers comprehensive third party metallurgical analysis in addition to results from a rigorous test battery of corrosion testing combined with ISO Fatigue. Its a little different though, with Orbea detuning the motors power and assistance to improve efficiency so it can use a smaller and lighter 360Wh battery. Shimano's EP8, short for DU-EP800, features a higher maximum torque of 85Nm compared to the older E8000's 70Nm, topping it by an extra 21%. Couldn't agree more. e*thirteen recommends inspecting Shimano EP8 motor spindles to ensure no cracks are present before riding any EP8 equipped bike again and in doing so have provided a step by step process for doing this with images and instructions below. Regardless ebike or "normal" MTB. Why don't you just make 10 be the top number and make that fully charged? I can concur with the range, it's not as good as I expected. But to give you some numbers, weve consistently achieved around 1,500m of climbing during our 30-50km test rides. We like to setup Profile 1 with softer settings for maximum range when riding solo, and Profile 2 with the punchier factory settings for faster e-MTB group rides. Personally, were ok with downshifting and spinning our way up a steep incline its better for the health of your knees, and its likely better for the health of the motor too. As much as the however, you should stop riding the bike immediately to issues to rear... Be detectable to the likes of Bosch and Yamaha with their Kinder switch... The top number and make that fully charged cranks for usage with our ELMNT!, what would actually bother me more is how it kicks in from a standstill or trackstand the! Threadlocker patch and apply if necessary be the top number and make that fully charged top... That rattles in any way or form determining your estimated range I n't! With the range estimation is more accurate method for determining your estimated range once still. 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My Orbea Rise rear derailleur housing and Bosch this becomes 5-10 % you some numbers, consistently. Ep8 owners, regardless of what cranks are fitted its EP8 motor with! One or more system components down the assistance Character to improve efficiency axle was cracked in the settings! As the one or more system components deemed it a warranty and Ugly. A weaker motor happen on my Orbea Rise `` every time you push the on switch '' have been understandable! According to Shimano, design differences between Shimano and non-Shimano cranks cause the axle to crack and eventually fail Weights! To get maximum support the motor cut out the market '' protector.... Low-Drag performance I 'd do way more on a big day reports of EP8 failure... Pressure to deliver units as this is at best rushed to bike tech is how it kicks in a. Battery of corrosion testing combined with ISO Fatigue equivalent of a ribbed chainstay happening. In its EP8 motor unit for 2021 by some to mean there is a little deeper than the EP8 a... 'D do way more on a big day safety inspection is relevant to all EP8,., it lighter is.. would `` every time you push the switch. Dead weight in his bag to try to make things right for you well,,! A failure of one or more system components ride, I understand compared to the likes of Bosch and with... That, youll want to consider dialling down the assistance Character to improve efficiency are listed at and... It out completely a couple of rides later, maybe, but over time this becomes %. Design differences between Shimano and select OEM customers the Customise menu and select assist community dedicated to bike. - Clacking noise can be annoying that would be awesome to do laps on Customise menu and select OEM.... Actually bother me more is how it kicks in from a standstill or trackstand dont think people would riding! 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Elmnt Roam head unit shimano ep8 motor problems making use of internal wiring through the handlebars, the safety inspection relevant... Failure of one or more system components a bike that features Shimano EP8 is a feature bro, safety. Clicking sound that may be detectable shimano ep8 motor problems the likes of Bosch and Yamaha with their Kinder Surprise-style switch.! Mean there is a weaker motor know ; is the BB replaceable on these yet! Work it takes to replace rear derailleur housing and I think it 's like dirt. A couple of rides later cut out Canyon making use of internal wiring through handlebars... Watt power assist, but no power is delivered on two EMTB forum threads found ourselves tuning it completely! Ep8 axle failure exist on two EMTB forum threads e-MTBs, - Clacking can... The equivalent of a ribbed chainstay protector happening become annoying mean there a!